Public Education

Shampoo and more Shampoo

Should we ban it...?

Yes we should
2
40%
No we should not
3
60%
 
Total votes: 5
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Art Vandelay
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Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:53 pm

Are we dumbing down public school kids in Kentucky? Sure! At who's expense? Probably the student's..........

Another note about the history and evolution of the CATS test...
When they first introduced this little marvel of an evaluative tool back in the mid 90's, (then known as KIRIS test.. don't ask me to remember what that acronym stands for, I forgot) the governmental powers that be made it the main standard by which schools were to be measured by in terms of academic success. The basic areas that are currently evaluated, were also back then but with some large, glaring errors.

1) some of the content areas that were tested were NOT curriculum requirements for everyone upon graduation, however those students were still accountable for knowing that information somehow. (for example, students who had never taken a humanities class, were not required to, but were still tested on that information...) Needless to say, student performance in those areas was always incredibly low because not everyone was exposed to those areas. Hmmmm...go figure. It took the department of education YEARS to figure that out and solve the problem by requiring everyone to take classes in those areas.

2) Some of the information that was on the KIRIS test was not part of the core content (things you need to know). For example, students one year were asked to be able to identify the intricate details that differientiated classical greek architecture from that of republican roman architecture, when they were never exposed to that or even knew that they needed to know it. (Are you scratching your head yet?) Again, it took the KDE years to figure out that they needed to exactly identify what material they wanted students to know, so that, in turn, teachers could prepare students to successfully take the test.


3) originally the department of education envisioned including a performance exam as part of the criteria for assessment. (students would be given some prompt , a table with materials, and told to solve the problem with what is in front of them in a given amount of time)
That has never happened because of the incredible subjective nature of the grading criteria. How do you determine what "Distinguished" work is based on something made from popsicle sticks, styrofoam coffee cups, and paperclips??


That being said, the test has been given a different name (going from KIRIS to CATS) has been trimmed down in length (the juniors originally carried the entire weight of the assessment of the school on their shoulders.. they did ALL of the content areas and the On-Demand) It took over a week to do all of the testing. The testing went from two books (one testing booklet and one answer book) to all of it merged into one document that goes in sequential order). Students don't even have to bubble in their names anymore... a computerized tag on the front cover has their name on it.

In short, they've made it nearly idiot-proof. Again, it took over 10 years to get to today's version of the test. Over the years, it's gotten weaker and weaker in terms of what knowledge is to be regurgitated back. Why is that, you ask? Because if the KDE lowers the bar on what the criteria for proficient is each year, it makes the state look like it's meeting it's original goal of by the 2014 ALL STUDENTS WILL BE PROFICIENT and the schools will reach the 100% mark.

The KDE even threw out/wiped clean old assessment scores from years past so that you couldn't compare scores from earlier years than like 1999. If you want to improve public education and be able to truly measure success, then we use a recognized nationally standardized test. Open response questions are too subjective to use beyond just classroom testing. Rumor has it that they may stop testing in Arts and Humanities in the near future with the No Child Left Behind program that Bush has implemented. Talk has even begun that the entire CATS test might be dismantled before 2014 since the NCLB education reforms are the new measuring stick of the day...


Colleges don't even recognize CATS scores as a valid evaluation tool of a student's abilities. They use a national standardized test... you know it as the ACT. College professors are up in arms because the incoming freshmen can't figure out how to do proper research and documentation of sources for a basic paper, or draft a good essay response to a question.
What they are seeing, and have been seeing for years now, is the huge education gap between what is expected at the high school level and the expectations at the secondary realm. They are upset because high schools are so focused on "teaching the CATS test" that other important curriculm is being pushed aside, basic skills that are critical for college success. Lexon, you've seen this first hand by having to take remedial type classes that teach stuff you should have learned in school so you can take the higher level classes in college. You aren't the only student who has discovered this the hard way.
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Re: Public Education

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:03 pm

lordofthepcs wrote:
Hopefully next year will be better...


Were I you, and every student at NCHS, I'd be earnestly praying about it every night until a choice is made. We all better hope that the Site-Based Council makes a wise decision on who the next leader will be. If not, it could have disastrous results.
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Postby Art Vandelay » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:02 am

One more parting shot before I leave for the evening.....

At what point, do you think, did we as a nation or generation, become a self-righteous, contemptuous, and lazy culture?

I don't think teachers ever deliberately underestimate the abilities of their students, it's just that over time, I think they get frustrated with the sheer lack of initiative, and complete unwillingness for most students to even bother to put forth any effort into the simplest task. (Today I heard a kid in class say it was too much work to bother getting up to sharpen a pencil, so they would just sit there with their dull one.) In a similar note, someone told me they were thinking of cancelling the school play this year because people just weren't committed to attending the rehearsals regularly. (They've been working on it since late last year....)

Educators can set the bar for earning a distinguished on an assignment really high so if you want an "A" you're going to have to work hard at it. But more than likely what the response from most students will be is, "Aw, I don't care. I'll settle for a novice ("D"). As long as I pass, it's ok. That's good enough."

Good enough? ?? That's really frightening to think that we are willing to settle mediocrity so easily. What's even more scary are parents who think it's ok, too.

There's been an ever increasing number of students over the years who think they are entitled to be given good grade but they should never have to actually work at it to earn it. Think about how many times you've copied someone else's work or seen someone copy someone else's homework because they were too lazy to do it themselves. Do you think teachers are really too stupid to figure it out when students copy the same erroneous, misspelled, or poorly worded answers word for word???
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Postby andrewrice07 » Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:28 pm

yeah this years CATS testing for the juniors was pretty easy....i mean they should have been asking like 2+2=? and the history part. i had fun writing b/c the questions were so easy that i could elaborate on every little detail it was great!...but then again the question came up one day in Neace's class:

girl - "whats the Thrid Reich?"
me - "are you kidding?"
girl - "no..really what is it?"
me - "Nazi party, Hilter..get the picture?"
girl - "your stupid, you dont know what your talking about!'


i swear to god thats what she said!

i dont know if its the drugs or the parents that decide that their sister or brother looks good! but kids are getting more and more unintelligent as the days go by!
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Lexon Avery
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Postby Lexon Avery » Mon May 01, 2006 3:05 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:One more parting shot before I leave for the evening.....

At what point, do you think, did we as a nation or generation, become a self-righteous, contemptuous, and lazy culture?


well self-righteous... i would define it as freedom without liberty cause by out side influence

Contemptuous....i dont think we have become that at all more like the anti-contemptuous.

Lazy culture... i think that is all of them in out but its not lazy it NO culture at all. the cost of our government wanting to control our lives by giving oppertunities equaly, without liberty. but thats all the time i have for this post.
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Lexon Avery
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Postby Lexon Avery » Sun May 07, 2006 7:34 am

Art Vandelay wrote: Lexon, you've seen this first hand by having to take remedial type classes that teach stuff you should have learned in school so you can take the higher level classes in college. You aren't the only student who has discovered this the hard way.


This only makes me want to be the last one even more. That slap in the face might have been what i needed at this point. Gettting to this point is the thing that i dont or any other student deserves .
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Postby nighthawk101 » Sun May 07, 2006 10:30 pm

In response to how we coddle children.... We have developed a society of egalitarianism. Everyone is a winner and everyone is special. Therefore, even if you are complete shampoo, you are still special..... etc etc.
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Postby nighthawk101 » Sun May 07, 2006 10:31 pm

andrewrice07 wrote:yeah this years CATS testing for the juniors was pretty easy....i mean they should have been asking like 2+2=? and the history part. i had fun writing b/c the questions were so easy that i could elaborate on every little detail it was great!...but then again the question came up one day in Neace's class:

girl - "whats the Thrid Reich?"
me - "are you kidding?"
girl - "no..really what is it?"
me - "Nazi party, Hilter..get the picture?"
girl - "your stupid, you dont know what your talking about!'


i swear to god thats what she said!

i dont know if its the drugs or the parents that decide that their sister or brother looks good! but kids are getting more and more unintelligent as the days go by!


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Postby Art Vandelay » Tue May 09, 2006 8:25 am

I thought this was interesting reading.
Some have argued that the group, Skull and Bones has sought to alter the U.S. educational system. Food for thought....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones_and_U.S._Education
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Lexon Avery
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Postby Lexon Avery » Tue May 09, 2006 9:16 am

That’s funny but can one say that the "elite race" well always come on top.(in the long run, or some could argue maybe just statistically)?

Boondock Saints "what is worse bad men or good men that go nothing?"

I don’t have a complete thought on this right now; I have finals running in my head lol. But I could defiantly see how that is like the American educational framework but I think these people would also want to “STOP” immigration altogether (not uneducated immigrants like out Mexican work force). If and educated thinker where to some to the states the system would get ruffled or maybe even fall. And no examination without religion would be complete, they don’t to about the church at all and its an educational facility (in my mind) that teachers people to think. But then maybe they don’t have to lol they all want to be poor carpenters, that exactly the bonemen’s goal to have a labor force.

Doesn’t this system also let the good the elite raise? Is that a bad thing?? Frankly shouldn’t the most wise most able be the leaders (if voting mattered it be illegal) (I’m not saying rich and powerful)
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