Public Education

Shampoo and more Shampoo

Should we ban it...?

Yes we should
2
40%
No we should not
3
60%
 
Total votes: 5
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Lexon Avery
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Public Education

Postby Lexon Avery » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:22 pm

(Note: this is just one topic that could be changed but hell it’s a start.)


Public Education let's ban it..... Privatize education... think of what could be done. We could produce real people not mindless capitalist consumers it be crazy. Teachers would be paid on results not paid for daycare and yeah I know what some might think well then the %12 of the Americans living in poverty couldn’t afford an education. Or could they.... with this cut to privatize education we could cut federal taxes %24.3 and state to %20 (or more). If one was to ask me that sounds like a dam good idea. Come on I know someone has something to say. At Nicholas County how good the education system... is now how good is the counties economy???(Keep that in mind)

The fact is there is a very, very bad crime accruing in Nicholas County and the rest of the United States and that is lack of discipline in the school system. This discipline worsens as time goes on due to administrator's fear of offending the Board of Education or the "general public" with too many suspensions and expulsions groups bring pressure on Boards by saying that the schools are suspending/expelling too many students on one race, one sex, or one whatever. And for that therefore the schools are doing things wrong. Sometimes the paychecks of principals are tied to their schools suspension rate so they subtly apply pressure to lower the suspension/expulsion rate so that they will be rated better and get more money.

To the people who say we suspend/expel too many students of one race/sex/age/etc. I say put up or shut up name one single student in the last ten years who has been sent to the office for discipline because he showed up on time, did their work, had their supplies, paid attention, did not fight, did not cuss out the teacher, did not attack the teacher or did not cut class…….




.......Of course there aren't any. GOOD STUDENTS DO NOT GET SENT TO THE OFFICE FOR MISBEHAVING! THE ONES SENT TO THE OFFICE FOR DISCIPLINE ARE THE ONES WHO CAUSE TROUBLE! These students, by misbehaving in class, are stealing the education for the students who are there to try and learn. This is the worse crime of all because they hurt the overall prospects of a student before he even gets a chance to get out of school and enter the workforce. It takes only one or two "bad students" in a class to make sure that the teacher cannot adequately teach the class.

This is one of the times when we need to turn to the saying "the needs of the many must outweigh the needs of the few." In effect, that need for “the many” to get a good-quality education must outweigh the needs of the others to cause trouble in class. Until we deal with the discipline problem, and until we deal with the problem of students cutting class and having incredibly poor attendance in school than nothing else we do, no great "special reform" program is going to mean a thing.

With the privatization of Education and the forcing American parents to pay for their child’s education with the money that they would get from this tax cuts (and there jobs) would have placed pressure not only on the parents but on their pressuring on their child to do well in school and not be "bad students" so that they didn’t just waste 2 - 5 thousand dollars on one year of education and then be forced to pay it ageing because there child was kicked out of a school. Making the parents deal with things would make the family life and the students wanting to succeed (so that they aren’t disciplined at home) grow. Any objection so far.....?? If so your probably one of those Sorry Americans that think for their own well being over having to take care of the life known as your child is to much to ask.

Also think of this as we'll make it rule that students can not have after school jobs (can not). Parents being forced to send their kids to school would also want to control the child's sexual activity. Don’t want to bring an opss!! child into the world do we......?? There is not only a second mouth to feed but there is a new education to pay for. (Yes this would also cross over to the abortion issue, as would the early talk about the tax cut)

So looking back just because the parents are paying for the education out of their pockets and raise their children(that being the hope behind this) how would we know if the teachers are really educating the children...? The plan for this would be to leave a %.2 tax remaining in federal tax to stay on education. We see that universes require an ACT or SAT score to get into the college. Having tests like this between levels of education. K to 1st, 5th to 6th, 8th to 9th. And then this university level testing would be the level in which our 12 to college would be tested on. The lower the child scores the higher the pay for the next year of school. And if a child was to fail he would not only have to repeat the grade and the exit entrance exam but he would also have a temporary payment increase on his enrolment fee. Oh this might also be a key moment to aid that schooling would be year round, like the workforce is. Leaving breaks between seasons like some year round schools have would nearly add 60 days to a normal American school year.

This penalty pay for not passing is also tied to the pay of a teacher. If the teacher fails to educate a class to a standardized level he would also be penalized not the students. But if under 10% maybe even as low as 5% of the class is not found to be at this level of education the penalty remains on the student.

This tests and the explanation of pay wavering would be funded by the %.2 tax along with it classifying and identification of special needs children. This Classification of special needs and the caring for the students would be paid for by both the parents and the increase pay on lower scoring students. Added to this would be that the extra pay that would be giving to teachers who out perform the set educational goals. With out the limiting current payment fee for enrolment. Meaning that a school and students pay is set to the equal government standard on the tests. So students that test above there goal would also be set in their teachers field of education. As the teaching improves and the student being taught improves the bars raise. Not setting a goal and not wrecking benefits from it like we see today does not work. In fact it is having a negative effect on the education system and the idea of being responsible for ones action.


SO any ideas…..?
Last edited by Lexon Avery on Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Public Education

Postby lordofthepcs » Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:12 pm

[quote="Lexon Avery
.......Of course there aren't any. GOOD STUDENTS DO NOT GET SENT TO THE OFFICE FOR MISBEHAVING! THE ONES SENT TO THE OFFICE FOR DISCIPLINE ARE THE ONES WHO CAUSE TROUBLE! [/quote]

This is something I have a problem with. At our school there is NO DISCIPLINE. I can go smoke in the bathroom (which is a federal offense) and NOTHING will be done to me because no one technically saw it. Even if I have cigarettes, lighter, my breath smells, etc, nothing can be done because the person didn't see me do it. So I guess that means that if I shot someone, had the smoking gun, and no one saw me do it, I am innocent. It's BS.

Of course, then you have the times when the good kids get called in for trying to change our school for the better and we get in trouble. Hopefully next year will be better...
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Postby Lexon Avery » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:07 am

Well that’s when i have to challenge you and say "YOU must Control the bathrooms" the student tells on another students who do you wrong by smoking by taking control of the class with miss behaviors. If D B doesn’t do anything about it, go to that school Cop he has a purpose there he might as well be made useful.

This is something I have a problem with. At our school there is NO DISCIPLINE. I can go smoke in the bathroom (which is a federal offense) and NOTHING will be done to me because no one technically saw it. Even if I have cigarettes, lighter, my breath smells, etc, nothing can be done because the person didn't see me do it. So I guess that means that if I shot someone, had the smoking gun, and no one saw me do it, I am innocent. It's BS.


As sad as that sounds you can if you have a good lawyer. But if you as students take a stand and say “Man if you don’t do your job. Who will, the way it looks now I will and that’s just what I am doing.”

Something I didn’t figure out until recently is that if you don’t do anything about it nothing will be done. Sure you don’t smoke, so you can make a stand that way but it is not enough if you don’t make it clear that there is something wrong. Change starts with one and grows too many. And if this problem grows and you are getting in trouble by DB or maybe just teachers in general then you go to the people above them, you tell me and you tell the board you tell as many people as you can that the school is doing nothing to fix a major federally offensive problem.

Ask yourself what is the worse that could happen….?

I lose friends?
More people hate me?
So one tries to fight me?

A. Friends come and friends go, actions have effect and actions show to everyone that sees them.
B. People will always hate you, maybe you haven’t met enough to find that out.
C. Well there’s only one side to that 1. win, 2. don’t fight get the shampoo beat out of you and have the person that started the fight removed from school. 3. teach them to think(very hard).

All three require you to know that pain is a part of life. And that hearts are minded as fast as they are broken. Making a stand in your life is the best thing someone could do. Taking that stand past its level is the lack of people standing up for themselves and a abuse to power. As uncle Ben says “with great power comes great responsibility” you as a person have power to stand for what you know is right.
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Postby cman06 » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:23 am

you make some good points about education pretty much all of which i agree but one question what inspired you to say this and why now?
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Postby nighthawk101 » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:32 am

I dont know how well the idea of making private school mandatory will fly.
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Postby Lexon Avery » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:43 am

Really it would no longer be private if you where to remove the taxes. And make them mandatory.

Private schools could still teach religion and anything else like that, why in the new the school’s it be a waste of time, unless you where teaching a history or philosopher class. Then religion would have to be taught. You get what im saying….??


Oh and inspiration came from what a sorry ass education I got until I started paying for my education. The systems we have today are falling apart we can’t get any where. Our tests scores are going down and the few good teachers out there are scared to really teach. Telling people to think is almost a sin. We cant have young people thinking then they would realized that we are getting screw in this world.

See this whole process also would not or could not take place over night as many really already know. And as long as the people educating us above us don’t tell us from what going on and its leaving us to do it for ourselves then we really don’t gain anything.

I have an extremely leftist geography teacher who doesn’t take role who doesn’t really teach a class at all. A guy that lives on my floor also has class with me well one day he came by 5 min. before class at asked to borrow my webcam. (long story don’t ask y he wants it the idea that is in your head is probably correct anyways) I said “no. Don’t you have class.” He says back “what’s the point in going you know as well as I do he’s not going to teach a dam thing and he doesn’t take role. shampoo man y do you go? The tests are easy enough to get a C on I bet you get A’s on them” I told him “I pay to come here I pay to go to class I might as well go. You know how he always says I get paid the same weather your here or not. I might as well be there. Maybe that way I can ask him to teach us something that average Joe doesn’t already know.”(I get B’s on the tests he gets D’s)

What I’m trying to say is the parents would be more leant to pay for an education that they know the teachers pay is at stack. We as students have a responsibility to learn. But the teachers above us also have a responsibility to teach us. And yes there are some out there, my English professor that I have now is one, my programming teacher I had last semester was also one. Id think Ms Works at Nicholas wants to but I don’t know her required teaching information or how much outside pressure there is on here. Ms. Green was a good teacher just after so many years she finally broke or had been broken on hirer about class room enforcement or educating. (I still don’t know y she left bad students in her classroom and let them steal an education from other students).(I am also just named teachers I had)

Where did we go wrong…..? When did public education stand for “what poor people naturally get to know” Like really why should we as students have to work extra hard to learn something and yet the students that misbehave get to do shampoo. But we cant fail them because it look bad on the school. I don’t think the drop out level on any school can be related to schools (at least in Kentucky) in fact it looks poorly on the home life and lack of control on there students. Education in the united state is bad in other parts of the world (the boondocks and the ghetto). The level of education is not at the level it needs to be we keep dropping the bar because we go off of averages across the state. We the ACT is the test that matters. If we think we are education our young people y the hell or the tests scores so low in Nicholas or Kentucky. I know some school have made it so you must take the ACT and get an 18 (I think that what they told me) to graduate and that’s not if they are going to college or not. Why is it if a student wants to take “real classes” and “learn” something then they must take online computer classes to learn anything. The teachers and the parents must take responsibility on the education system. So a plan that makes both responsible is needed like the one I laid out. As the newly higher educated student that I am (note: I hade to take 9 hours of high school level classes first, before I could take some of my general education courses.) I have to set back and think how did I get this way….

Well it wasn’t hard work I did shampoo in high school I just set on my ass and made fun or teachers or delivered the news paper. Yeah sure you can say what about calculus well lest time I checked other school graduate at least 15% of there students with it, might not have been the level of math that I was at but they still do. Also the main reason I was taking it as an independent study meaning I was teaching most of the stuff to my self and Hamm and Sandaris* either graded or filled in the blanks. I really never learned learned what I was doing. I retook pre cal and calculus in college. Why am I almost total illiterate….because in elementary school I was the smartest mathematics’ kid in my high school and math was made the majority of my schooling when I was labeled as out Math prodigy child. They decided to put me in third grade to learn math after morning kindergarten was over. Well coming into first - fourth grade the teachers thought silent reading was the best thing for all the students so come Math time it would be the only thing I could do. And yes mom I wrote “Jim and Tak’s Adventures”. TV, TV, TV sure it was creative it was and scientific (and had good art work if I might add) but how much of that was really me and not we doing a basic none creative paper ( I just stole the idea of gravity from TV and wrote a stupid book about it.) but by the time I got to fifth or even 8th grade I hade revamped Jim and Tak 4 times making it even more none that I stopped creating and just did with what worked the first time. As for the book reports I had to do well the year before those the teacher always read a book to us. I just took from what I new about it and wrote on it. I think it was 8th grade before I really read my first book to myself. Oh and the ”book” new denomination might come in this as well yes I wrote a 300 some odd typed book packed fool of typing errors and grammar problems as I’m sure this one is. I deleted it because I was ashamed of what a sorry ass job I was doing at this. It wasn’t until college now that I can really express myself threw writing. And for that I have to thank my Current English 100 teacher, Thank you Mr. Lake. So yes al threw school had have had a problem with not being pushed, or being pushed to hard, ro not have been identifying the problem at hand. (Don’t cry me a river about my eyes either that the not prime reason for the problem)

Works was the first person that I think really identified the problem to someone, and as bad as I feel now for not taken action then because my pride was in control of my life (sorry jenny). I feel the effects now not just in my grades but in my heart.

So This is what has lead me to this crap load of writing because I found out that my pride controls most of my life, that and always trying to be right (but hey theirs nothing wrong with that just as long as I don’t lead someone down the wrong path). I found out that I have to do something about my problems if I am going to get anywhere, or do anything with my life. Education is just a topic that affects all young people like me as well as our country for tomorrow. ..


With that No one can deny the fact that there is something wrong with our education system and with the American spirit. Our pride is stopping us from getting anywhere, our wanting to not see every side of a situation is the problem. Out lack of Responsiblility is braking this country apart. And when will it stop when will we get up off our asses and do something I say know before its to late.
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Postby nighthawk101 » Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:52 pm

Lexon Avery wrote:Really it would no longer be private if you where to remove the taxes. And make them mandatory.


How would they be funded then?

Lexon Avery wrote:Private schools could still teach religion and anything else like that, why in the new the school’s it be a waste of time, unless you where teaching a history or philosopher class. Then religion would have to be taught. You get what im saying….??


So there are "public" schools that are not funded by taxes where the general populace attends in addition to the traditional private school?


Lexon Avery wrote:Oh and inspiration came from what a sorry ass education I got until I started paying for my education. The systems we have today are falling apart we can’t get any where. Our tests scores are going down and the few good teachers out there are scared to really teach. Telling people to think is almost a sin. We cant have young people thinking then they would realized that we are getting screw in this world.


Making the masses (who are and generally want to remain uneducated) attend "private" schools would take away the education benefits that current private and pay schools provide.

Lexon Avery wrote:See this whole process also would not or could not take place over night as many really already know. And as long as the people educating us above us don’t tell us from what going on and its leaving us to do it for ourselves then we really don’t gain anything.


Elaborate on this please

Lexon Avery wrote:I have an extremely leftist geography teacher who doesn’t take role who doesn’t really teach a class at all. A guy that lives on my floor also has class with me well one day he came by 5 min. before class at asked to borrow my webcam. (long story don’t ask y he wants it the idea that is in your head is probably correct anyways) I said “no. Don’t you have class.” He says back “what’s the point in going you know as well as I do he’s not going to teach a dam thing and he doesn’t take role. shampoo man y do you go? The tests are easy enough to get a C on I bet you get A’s on them” I told him “I pay to come here I pay to go to class I might as well go. You know how he always says I get paid the same weather your here or not. I might as well be there. Maybe that way I can ask him to teach us something that average Joe doesn’t already know.”(I get B’s on the tests he gets D’s)


The majority of my classes dont take roll either. It would take the entire class to do so with 300 people in a class.

As for not teaching... all of my professors do.

Lexon Avery wrote:What I’m trying to say is the parents would be more leant to pay for an education that they know the teachers pay is at stack. We as students have a responsibility to learn. But the teachers above us also have a responsibility to teach us. And yes there are some out there, my English professor that I have now is one, my programming teacher I had last semester was also one. Id think Ms Works at Nicholas wants to but I don’t know her required teaching information or how much outside pressure there is on here. Ms. Green was a good teacher just after so many years she finally broke or had been broken on hirer about class room enforcement or educating. (I still don’t know y she left bad students in her classroom and let them steal an education from other students).(I am also just named teachers I had)


Capitol Punishment is legal in Kentucky, and should be enforced.

Lexon Avery wrote:Where did we go wrong…..? When did public education stand for “what poor people naturally get to know” Like really why should we as students have to work extra hard to learn something and yet the students that misbehave get to do shampoo. But we cant fail them because it look bad on the school. I don’t think the drop out level on any school can be related to schools (at least in Kentucky) in fact it looks poorly on the home life and lack of control on there students.


Our focus is on the CATS test, and that is it. That is what gets the school money... not other things.


Lexon Avery wrote:Education in the united state is bad in other parts of the world (the boondocks and the ghetto). The level of education is not at the level it needs to be we keep dropping the bar because we go off of averages across the state. We the ACT is the test that matters. If we think we are education our young people y the hell or the tests scores so low in Nicholas or Kentucky. I know some school have made it so you must take the ACT and get an 18 (I think that what they told me) to graduate and that’s not if they are going to college or not. Why is it if a student wants to take “real classes” and “learn” something then they must take online computer classes to learn anything. The teachers and the parents must take responsibility on the education system.


That is simply our culture. It is acceptable and someway "cool" to be uneducated and a shampoo... and to act black. Integration really killed the schools.

Lexon Avery wrote:Well it wasn’t hard work I did shampoo in high school I just set on my ass and made fun or teachers or delivered the news paper. Yeah sure you can say what about calculus well lest time I checked other school graduate at least 15% of there students with it, might not have been the level of math that I was at but they still do. Also the main reason I was taking it as an independent study meaning I was teaching most of the stuff to my self and Hamm and Sandaris* either graded or filled in the blanks. I really never learned learned what I was doing. I retook pre cal and calculus in college. Why am I almost total illiterate….because in elementary school I was the smartest mathematics’ kid in my high school and math was made the majority of my schooling when I was labeled as out Math prodigy child. They decided to put me in third grade to learn math after morning kindergarten was over. Well coming into first - fourth grade the teachers thought silent reading was the best thing for all the students so come Math time it would be the only thing I could do. And yes mom I wrote “Jim and Tak’s Adventures”. TV, TV, TV sure it was creative it was and scientific (and had good art work if I might add) but how much of that was really me and not we doing a basic none creative paper ( I just stole the idea of gravity from TV and wrote a stupid book about it.) but by the time I got to fifth or even 8th grade I hade revamped Jim and Tak 4 times making it even more none that I stopped creating and just did with what worked the first time. As for the book reports I had to do well the year before those the teacher always read a book to us. I just took from what I new about it and wrote on it. I think it was 8th grade before I really read my first book to myself. Oh and the ”book” new denomination might come in this as well yes I wrote a 300 some odd typed book packed fool of typing errors and grammar problems as I’m sure this one is. I deleted it because I was ashamed of what a sorry ass job I was doing at this. It wasn’t until college now that I can really express myself threw writing. And for that I have to thank my Current English 100 teacher, Thank you Mr. Lake. So yes al threw school had have had a problem with not being pushed, or being pushed to hard, ro not have been identifying the problem at hand. (Don’t cry me a river about my eyes either that the not prime reason for the problem)

Ok, I didnt read that... to many words with no break for a paragraph.

Lexon Avery wrote:With that No one can deny the fact that there is something wrong with our education system and with the American spirit. Our pride is stopping us from getting anywhere, our wanting to not see every side of a situation is the problem. Out lack of Responsiblility is braking this country apart. And when will it stop when will we get up off our asses and do something I say know before its to late.


THat is just stupidity on behalf of the populace and it is due impart to our culture.


What is my opinion on all of this? May be harsh, but integration killed the public school system.
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Postby Lexon Avery » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:33 am

nighthawk101 wrote:How would they be funded then?


As I have said without the taxes we have now the parents would have the money back into there pockets. And the Parents would be forced to pay for the school there by funding its needs.


nighthawk101 wrote:So there are "public" schools that are not funded by taxes where the general populace attends in addition to the traditional private school?


I’m not to sure what you are trying to say there.

nighthawk101 wrote:Making the masses (who are and generally want to remain uneducated) attend "private" schools would take away the education benefits that current private and pay schools provide.


Well I think at this point I should rename these taxes less schools to something else. But what is this educational benefits you speak of…..oh an education that’s funny that is what I want everyone to have. But at this point in time we for a mass amount of reasons we cant educate children in public schools anymore. We can only give them a “poor mans knowledge” as I said before. Well now I have to take back what I said maybe we need to rename private schools that educate in god and in religion to something else. It has been transcended that private education is a holy type of educational system as true as that may seem private educations role was that the school has more control over the life of the students and what he is exposed to (hints: religion).

Lexon Avery wrote:See this whole process also would not or could not take place over night as many really already know. And as long as the people educating us above us don’t tell us from what going on and its leaving us to do it for ourselves then we really don’t gain anything.



nighthawk101 wrote:Elaborate on this please


ummmm…….what the transfer of policy from taxed public to tax free public….? Or “then we don’t really gain anything part.”

Well in case one this change is one of tax to tax free can not take place over night manly because we have to get everyone behind a change if we want one to occur. Secondly removing taxes is a kind of hard thing to do… have you looked at a PDF or a printout of our national or state budget…..??? That thing makes less scene to a US Senator then it does to me. In fact I was unable to find a recent budget plan that made close to scenes except 1996, that was the last one that I found that one could really pick numbers out of so my % can only go up (because this would not have “no child left behind” implemented into it).

Case two is that the people above us have a responsibility to tell us the truth and other things we can come to our own conclusions. I’m sure you have heard the saying “a wise man learns from the mistakes of others” well we as a wise culture must learn from the people before us. That’s why we have people older then us teaching us not us teaching them and we get paid. Bring me to “the beauty of the mind of a child” tell me why is that saying so respected but so misinterpreted.(not this is wrong of me to do because interpretations of one may not be the same as interpretations of an other).


nighthawk101 wrote:The majority of my classes dont take roll either. It would take the entire class to do so with 300 people in a class.

As for not teaching... all of my professors do.


Hold up all your professors teach or all of them don’t teach.

If they are teaching lucky you (what is your major anyways). I know you are one note to be called a “lazy American” and I know you yourself have plans or goals for yourself so your idea of teachers teaching is being related to what….? If they aren’t it only enforces my point.

nighthawk101 wrote:Capitol Punishment is legal in Kentucky, and should be enforced.


Why are we making the educations system responsible for the disciplinary problems when the actions of the parents are the cause for their Childs actions?

Lexon Avery wrote:Where did we go wrong…..? When did public education stand for “what poor people naturally get to know” Like really why should we as students have to work extra hard to learn something and yet the students that misbehave get to do shampoo. But we cant fail them because it look bad on the school. I don’t think the drop out level on any school can be related to schools (at least in Kentucky) in fact it looks poorly on the home life and lack of control on there students.


nighthawk101 wrote:Our focus is on the CATS test, and that is it. That is what gets the school money... not other things.


Why are you bringing that up for that quote…… yes CATS testing is the only goal schools have. But if the schools goal was the ACT something Bureaucrat United States doesn’t control too much of. Maybe both CATS testing scores and ACT scores would go up. This is one thing my mom has been trying to push in the school board meeting. Focusing on a meaning less test that doesn’t affect students in anyways later in there life is a bad idea. A college doesn’t require me to get in the top %99 in math to get into it so I can get a good education and get a great well paying job.


Lexon Avery wrote:Education in the united state is bad in other parts of the world (the boondocks and the ghetto). The level of education is not at the level it needs to be we keep dropping the bar because we go off of averages across the state. We the ACT is the test that matters. If we think we are education our young people y the hell or the tests scores so low in Nicholas or Kentucky. I know some school have made it so you must take the ACT and get an 18 (I think that what they told me) to graduate and that’s not if they are going to college or not. Why is it if a student wants to take “real classes” and “learn” something then they must take online computer classes to learn anything. The teachers and the parents must take responsibility on the education system.


nighthawk101 wrote:That is simply our culture. It is acceptable and someway "cool" to be uneducated and a shampoo... and to act black. Integration really killed the schools.


Maybe….or maybe it was the idealism of civil rights. I don’t have to do anything but talk and bitch to get what I want. If I keep bitching they might do something about it if I keep marching they might do something about it. Looks like terrorism in a peaceful form lol. (so as I have said this reform cross its bonds into may topics/problems in the us this is one thank you for merely adding it to the realm of education.) Education is a root problem, if we cant get say white people to think how well they ever realize affirmative action is screwing them….? It takes actions right out of things. (I would say more but I would just liekto stick to the root issue we can expand on this in a different tread if you’d like. But its funny even our culture is related to our education lol.


nighthawk101 wrote:Ok, I didnt read that... to many words with no break for a paragraph.


Yeah sorry about that I was talking on the phone, typing it, and looking up on Kentucky’s Congressional Redistricting map. So yeah grammar and spelling is a major issue in that segment lol but may things can still be made out of it lol.

nighthawk101 wrote:THat is just stupidity on behalf of the populace and it is due impart to our culture.

What is my opinion on all of this? May be harsh, but integration killed the public school system.


Yes nighthawk it is stupidity and how do we fix that educate. So the problem is also the solution. Imagine that lol

And as for your opinion on “all this”…..your opinion can not be taken into consideration due the fact that is integration would more then likely not have happened (like it did) if the people controlling this nation and in this nation had an education. Meaning people can work (work) there way into society’s acceptance if and when society is educated to their full potential. Again I’m crossing the board of the arguments with idealism’s about race. But yes it does have a major effect on the problem and the solution. If we ever get to the point in this conversation where we can explore these bonds with out jumping to a conclusion without spelling out the transitions in-between (something I tend to do in my writing like I am not.) our actions and our conclusions will be and can be misinterpreted.

So don’t take that the wrong way I’m not saying your opinion doesn’t manner It does and I want to here more of it just could you explain on the meaning of your conclusions.

And Ford I want to hear your side to this. Your title could be changed lol from what “network administrator” to “education network administration professional” idk lol just a funny thought. The school system reparation that I am trying to in trench is that computers to a limit would be removed from the class rooms as would the teacher.

The class would stay in one room the whole day that would be there room. The class is responsible for it well being. Making the teachers move from room to room. And then there would be computer labs 3 or 4 like we have today that would be explored in an educations manner not a spell checker, internet surfing tool. Saying the computer is a very powerful tool not a control device lol. shampoo I can tell you why I have to type this on a computer but first use word to check spelling and grammar. Normally after each paragraph, but you should already know that from the vast amount of illiterate posts I have on this forum lol.

Again any ideas….?
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Postby SEANTHOMAS90 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:34 am

You guys have very good points but can you narrow down your posts a
bit :?:
I'm completely lost in the first half of this topic b/c of the constant quoting and extremely long posts :!:
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Postby Lexon Avery » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:17 pm

SEANTHOMAS90 wrote:You guys have very good points but can you narrow down your posts a
bit :?:
I'm completely lost in the first half of this topic b/c of the constant quoting and extremely long posts :!:


well i know this is a very big topic and i want to make a lot of changs to the system but yes i will try to narrow my ideas down with out taking away from the support. so nighthawk looks like we will be posting a question at a time from now on lol.
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Postby andrewrice07 » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:20 pm

i guarantee you that this is well thought out but i just dont fell like reading all that lol sry
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Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:53 pm

Why not just make education available for those who want to pay for it? People would pay for the type of education services that they want rather than a mandatory "across the board" ("one size fits all") curriculum. Everyone would get what they want that way.


In the end, however, each has to take responsibility for their own education and the level that they wish to achieve at. A teacher can't force a student to learn if they don't want to. Likewise, if a student chooses to take courses that aren't very challenging just so they can get a good GPA, then whose fault is that?

The desire to learn has to ultimately come from within a person. What intrinsically motivates a person can't really be changed unless that individual deliberately chooses to change it.

Parents play a huge role in the life of a young child in learning how important education can be and making right decisions. Parents who don't give a crap about education, do drugs, and look for their welfare check every month so they can play the lottery and are probably not going motivate their child to "do their best" every day in school. Instead, they most likely will teach their offspring how to abuse the system for what it is worth because they've been so successful at it.

There's a lot of people in this part of the world who DON'T want an education because it's much easier to suck off of the government teat and draw a check for it. If they got an education, then they'd (GASP!) HAVE to work. Nicholas County Schools is one of the last districts who don't make their students pay fees for textbooks and other classroom fees because they fear that parents would be greatly outraged at having to fund their child's education any more beyond just the regular city/county taxes. It took sweat, blood and tears just to get the community to support funding the current addition to the high school. Most people were honestly convinced that if it was good enough for them in their day, then it should be good enough for the current generation.

I think it would be unfair to tie a teacher's pay to whether or not Little Johnny achieves at a certain level when Johnny doesn't bother to show up for class or turn in homework. How can you make a student do an assigment when they don't want to?


Would you like it if your salary was directly tied to how your co-workers performed when they have nothing to make them personally accountable? If you worked your butt off for a company and your co-worker is a druggie who parties all night can't consistently work her shift, it would be your pay that would get docked. But yet the company refuses to fire the less productive people because they have to maintain a diverse quota out of fear of lawsuits. Nurse's salaries aren't tied to how successful a doctor's surgeries are.
Nor is a judge's pay connected to whether a lawyer wins or loses.


I agree, public education is in great need of a massive overhauling from top to bottom in every way. Sadly, I don't think that will happen, at least any time soon. I would like to see more accountability put back on the students. Exit exams would be a good start. If you didn't pass the final, then, guess what? You don't go on to the next grade, or graduate if you're a senior. No automatic social promotion just because a student is getting too old for 8th grade but yet they can't read or do simple math.

I think it should stop trying to be all things to everyone and get back to the business of education. Smaller schools, like Nicholas County are at a disadvantage compared to the larger schools in terms of curriculum. There's a lot of courses that aren't offered simply because there isn't enough staff to teach things like psychology, sociology, law & justice, chorus, photography,... and the list goes on an on. The advantage is that the student/teacher ratio is lower, so students can get more on on one attention if they want it.
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Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:15 pm

Another thing, if you talk to any student from a foreign country and ask them to compare their education system to ours, they think we are absolutely foolish in not putting any responsibility on the student to achieve. Other countries don't coddle their students and baby them like we do here. Giving out free prizes, having pep rallies, having a 10 minute snack break, and the other things we do at our school is just baffling to the exchange students. They think it's insane that the state's evaluation of a school's performance is based on how well students do on a test that they personally aren't accountable for in any way. When you stop and think about it, it IS crazy.

In other countries, teachers don't accept excuses or reasons for poor performance. In foreign countries, parents don't raise hell with the administrators for punishing their child for breaking school rules. Parents don't demand teaching diversity or tolerance for everyone and everything. Parents don't demand that a teacher dumbs down their curriculum because their son or daughter isn't doing well in a class. Parents don't demand that teachers expect less from their child for one reason or another. Instead, parents who care, are equally responsible for helping their child at home whether that be doing it themselves or hiring a tutor who can. They place the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the student.

Overseas, as a student, you either do it or not. A student's achievement determines what kind of school they attend. Those that don't want to go on to higher education, go to trade-type schools, while those that do, go to the university. Those that drop out are left to fend for themselves the best way they can without government assistance. Students who are gifted are not pushed into teaching those who are struggling, like we do here. Nor do they have to endure the stupidity of those who are disruptive to the education process. Instead those students are immediately removed and never seen again.

Here in America, there are parents who think that their child's education is the solely responsibility of the school and that by putting them in public school absolves them of the job. ("I don't have to do it, because my tax dollars already pay for it.")
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Postby Lexon Avery » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:55 pm

Finally someone that sees what I have been talking about, that I can talk to lol. I was trying to toss out some pretty crazy things to get a response but this is just what I was looking for from the start. And someone finally talked about Nicholas counties 10 min break lol. Really what does that do??

(lord u made a good point but then u stopped and I didn’t know about Dougy-Be sorry)

lol pep rallies “American propaganda” at its best. What does that accomplish but time away from the classroom??? If you want to tell students how good they are doing, do it on the morning announcements. Why should you tell students how good they are doing…shouldn’t A’s be handed out by hard work….we have B’s and C’s for a reason. (that would be a problem I have met with a lot of teachers even in college, but its not their fault grades had to be privatized and the digress competition among students began.)

In some of my own research I was also shown that foreign students are introduced to philosophy at a young age, and taught in schools as well. Could philosophy be what is missing…? The only reason I found out that I could even write (I mean the real reason I can write now) is because I was introduced to some of the greatest philosophical minds that are would as ever seen. And with that I became more aware at what (besides spelling) my writing where missing…. Aren’t you guys proud that little ol’ lexon is all grown up now…I used to make as much cense as LordMann does now.(I don’t blame you I blame the schools and your parents and your Americanized idea that its ok that you are, as I was, almost totally illiterate(I am still a little/well a lot)).
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Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:30 pm

Ok. I lied.. I thought of something else, so I'll add on.

See if this makes any sense to you....
to teach at the college level, all one needs is a Master's degree or higher and you are hired for the job. Professors don't have to take any type of courses on learning HOW to teach effectively, learning strategies, etc.

To teach in any elementary or high school, a teacher has to not only have a major/minor or area of concentration in their chosen department of study, but they also have to successfully complete a teacher's education program. It's a very rigorous and difficult set of obstacles for a teacher to pass. Then once they are hired in a school district, they are mentored for a year or two for an internship, by a veteran teacher and have to pass the strict standards set by the Kentucky Department of Education before they are given the final stamp of approval. They are constantly observed and endlessly evaluated by three different people on their classroom teaching techniques during this "trial by fire" period.

Back at the college level, the professor holds class for however long they want..sometimes not even showing up with no warning. They can lecture for up to three hours at a time if it's a night class that meets one night a week. They determine their own curriculum much of the time. They don't have to set clear grading criteria and follow it. They don't have to make out lesson plans and submit them to a department head for review and approval. They can do whatever they want basically.

My education in college was up to me and me alone much of the time. If I was going to get my money's worth out of the experience, I was going to have to be responsible for making that happen.

Now that I think back on it, some of my WORST teachers were my college professors. They read from the textbook hidden behind a huge podium, or just rambled for an hour in class discussion skipping from topic to topic that had little or nothing to do with the actual class (some of them I swear were insane).
I had one professor who endlessly chain-smoked during his hour long lecture. Once a cigarette was finished, he would carefully place the butt-end, vertically up on the edge of his desk. At the end of the class the entire front and one side of the desk would be lined with upright cigarette butts.
Some of my professors offered little or no feedback on how to improve for the next paper, but just gave me a grade with no explanation on how they came up with the grade. Some of my teachers hated EVERYTHING I did, despite my best efforts. One of my professors actually told my class that he rarely gave out A's and that any hopes of earning an A was slim to none.

Don't get me wrong, though. There were a few good ones, and it was those that I learned the most from. Sometimes, they deliberately didn't teach me so I would have to learn it on my own. Those were the ones who taught me how to learn from my mistakes, to never quit learning your whole life, to have a passion for what you love, and to never, ever settle for the easy way out.

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